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Why I Don't Live in the Bunker: Reflections on the Youth Worker's Place in Culture

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By Walt Mueller
8/23/2007

Four hundred eager-to-learn youth workers were in the room—there to listen to me talk about a Christian approach to culture. I began by asking this question: "How many of you—because of your deep love for Christ, desire to serve him in obedience, and passion for reaching kids—made a conscious effort this week to keep your eyes and ears away from the media that's such a big part of your students' diet?" Half of the hands in the room went up.

Then I followed up with this question: "How many of you—because of your deep love for Christ, desire to serve him in obedience, and passion for reaching kids—made a conscious effort this week to keep your eyes and ears tuned in to the media that's such a big part of your students' diet?" The other half of the hands went up

Each group looked at the other in disbelief as the rumblings of muttering swept through the room. The battle lines had been drawn, and half of the group probably wasn't going to like what I had to say.

'Culture War'
While we've all heard of the so-called "culture war" that's been raging between Christians and culture, there's another cultural war over the proper place of the Christian in relation to his or her world. The side we choose will have a profound effect on how we do youth ministry.

In his classic book Christ and Culture (Harper & Row), H. Richard Niebuhr describes this "enduring problem" as the "many-sided debate about the relations of Christianity and civilization." While many options and expressions of cultural engagement or the avoidance thereof exist in both the church through history and the church today, I believe God is clear on how we as followers are to relate to the culture—all for the sake of the advancement of God's Kingdom in the world.

The question of how Christians should and shouldn't interact with culture is a question we must answer as we prepare to go as cross-cultural missionaries into the changing, challenging, and not-so-pretty world of today's emerging youth culture. Niebuhr rightly recognized that because we're human beings, we must engage with culture at some level because wherever there are people, there is culture. He also recognized that the One who sends (as well as those sent) necessitates such interaction, as "the Son of God is himself the child of a religious culture, and sends his disciples to tend his lambs and sheep, who cannot be guarded without cultural work."

The extent to which we influence or don't influence our students and their culture depends on how, as faithful followers of Jesus Christ, we choose to approach culture. The approach we choose must be based not on personal preference, but primarily on its faithfulness to the Scriptures and secondarily on its helpfulness in engaging and reaching emerging generations. That's why I encourage youth workers to live the will of the Father that Jesus prayed (John 17) the night before his death—that we are to be in but not of the world. We are to go where our students are, living among them and learning about them as we interact with them while observing and processing everything that's part of their world—even to the point of reading what they read, listening to what they listen to, and watching what they watch. That's also why I encourage youth workers to avoid the dangerous and disobedient path of living life in the bunker.

Constructing Bunkers
Throughout the history of the church, Christ's followers in different times and different places have sought to protect and defend themselves and their children from the evil and offensive influence of culture by constructing "bunkers" in which to live while awaiting their removal from this temporal world and movement on to the safe haven of eternity with God. Usually they've believed that contact with the world or certain cultural elements of it would lead to corruption and the adoption of ungodly attitudes and practices.

Many early Christians sought to remain pure in their devotion to Christ by separating themselves from Greco-Roman culture. The hermits of the early church felt a solitary existence was the path to deeper spirituality. The middle ages saw the withdrawal of the monastics from the world as they pursued spiritual purity. In my own community, the Amish continue to live a simple life of separation from the ways of the world, avoiding participation and involvement in the worldly ways of "the English."

In recent church history, many in American churches (especially those of the conservative evangelical bent) have adopted a similar bunker approach to culture. While their separation from the world has been less extreme, it is separation nonetheless. Whether they consciously or unconsciously view culture as inherently evil and unredeemable, they circle the wagons, spin a protective cocoon, and retreat to a life lived in a bunker.

Early in my own life I experienced a certain degree of this type of separation. I was raised in a Christian home where my pastor- father believed—with earnest and pure motivation—that the best way to live out his love for Christ and for his children was to protect us from many of the evils in the world. One example stands out in my mind. Every year our neighborhood held a picnic on Memorial Day, with organized games for the children, live music, lots of laughter, and an abundance of food. Everybody from our neighborhood—young and old alike—was together. It was great celebration, and each year I sat by my bedroom window, wishing that I could be there.

You see, at that point in their lives, my parents' desire was to shield their boys from any worldliness (not all the participants were Christians, and there was occasional profanity and alcohol at the celebration). However, over the course of time, my parents softened their stance, not because they chose to compromise their principles or because they took their faith any less seriously, but because their understanding of how Christians should interact with culture changed as result of their prayerful study of the Scriptures. Before long we were attending and enjoying the picnic as a family. Out of love and devotion to Christ and their boys, my parents used the picnic as an opportunity to teach us that Christians are called to be in the world as Jesus was in the world; but while there, we must guard against adopting values, attitudes, and behaviors that are contrary to God's will.

Holiness or Legalism?
In the years since, I've had opportunities to speak with my dad about that period in our lives and why he came to the conclusions he did. I've also had numerous encounters with fellow Christians who continue to live and take that stance of alienation from the world. Typically, their desire is to please God and remain faithful to the Word. Their motives are right. They strive to live out their commitment to Christ and his commands, particularly, they say, the calls to "come out from them, and be separate from them" (2 Corinthians 6:17), to live as "aliens and exiles" (1 Peter 2:11), to "not love the world or the things in the world" (1 John 2:15), to "take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness," and to avoid the shame of even mentioning "what such people do secretly" (Ephesians 5:11, 12). Examples of this type of living can be seen throughout church history and are abundant and evident in many corners of the church today.

If we take the approach of alienation, we can fall into a legalistic lifestyle focused on outward behavior, and our youth group culture becomes shaped and marked by that lifestyle. Many of the people I know who've adopted this view of culture conclude, to some degree, that non-Christian people, institutions, and cultural elements are always hostile to us and our faith; that we are to be separate from the world, not only in attitude but also in proximity; and that life is only about surviving and enduring our time on earth until Christ returns or we go to meet him in death. So we build our bunkers.

In 1527, an Anabaptist group known as the Swiss Brethren Conference discussed and adopted the Schleitheim Confession as their statement on certain matters of faith. The creed's statement on "Separation from the Abomination" is a clear example of how this approach places a premium on separatistic behavior and alienation from the culture. The statement includes "Since all who do not walk in the obedience of faith, and have not united themselves with God so that they wish to do His will, are a great abomination before God, it is not possible for anything to grow or issue from them except abominable things" and a long list of things from which "we shall be separated and have part with them for they are nothing but an abomination, and they are the cause of our being hated before Jesus Christ…" (http://www.anabaptists.org/history/schleith.html)

Christian Sub-Culture
Many of us in the 21st century church may be appalled by the extremes in this confession. Perhaps we pride ourselves on avoiding this type of approach to life. After all, we've striven to be culturally relevant. But when that cultural relevance is nothing more than adapting the cultural forms of the world as a tool for expressing and living our faith, should we be proud of that accomplishment? If we've established a distinctly separate Christian culture that runs parallel to the mainstream culture of the world, and we assume that living in that culture will shelter and protect us and our students from the world, then we too are living a life of alienation. Are we any different from the Swiss Brethren of 1527 if we take all the things of everyday life and culture—television, radio, music, T-shirts, jewelry, greeting cards, bookstores, coffee shops, breath mints—and market them with the word "Christian" placed before each, along with admonitions to "support your local Christian businesses"?

John Fischer, in his book Finding God Where You Least Expect Him, believes this is exactly what we've done when he says that we've become a generation of cultural Christians: "To the cultural Christian, the world is a scary place to be avoided at all costs. The products and services marketed and sold to cultural Christians help them do just that. They provide a safer alternative to the world, and as such they ensure cultural Christians keep their distance from the world…It is assumed the Christian alternative will be taken wherever it applies. To not accept the Christian option is to be worldly."

Dangers of Separatism
While the Scriptures are clear that there's to be a huge difference between believers and non-believers in what we believe and how we live our everyday lives, the alienation approach is riddled with problems that distort what those differences should be.

Reading Scripture with an Agenda
Many who consciously pursue and live a lifestyle of alienation are guilty of shaping and supporting their position by misusing and misinterpreting Scripture. Typically, they approach the Bible looking for how the Scriptures support their stance of alienation, rather than prayerfully approaching the Bible to be shaped by what the Scriptures actually teach. At times, individual phrases and verses are read and applied without considering their grammatical, literary, historical, and cultural contexts. Rather than understanding the plain meaning of the text as intended by the author and superintended by God, they read into it a meaning that further cements their own theological biases towards separation and their definition of what it means to be separate from the world.

For example, Paul's words to the Ephesians are often used to justify a life of alienation in the bunker. After listing several differences between those who live in light and those who live in darkness, Paul tells them, "Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. For it is shameful even to mention what such people do secretly; but everything exposed by the light becomes visible, for everything that becomes visible is light…" (Ephesians 5:11-14a). Does this mean, as many believe, that Christians are to avoid venturing into or even speaking about the darkness at all costs, or is Paul advising them to avoid doing the "deeds" of darkness, not avoid those involved in doing them? This is simply another way of saying that the Christian's place is in the world, not of the world. Like Jesus, we're to go into a world full of those lost in darkness and let the light of Christ shine through our lifestyles lived in their midst—living what is "good and right and true" (Ephesians 5:9) rather than firing condemning verbal bullets from the supposed safety of our bunkers. To "live as children of light" (Ephesians 5:8), we must not hide our light in a bunker, but rather let it shine in the midst of the darkness.

Reading Scripture out of Context
Living the bunker mentality can be the result of lifting those passages that rightly warn Christ's followers to avoid adopting the ways of the world out of the context of the full canon and scope of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. We thus avoid the tension between these passages and others that encourage and command contact with, living in, and even enjoyment of the world and its many diverse cultures. The proper balance is lost, and those who buy into this type of teaching live imbalanced lives marked by varying extremes of disobedient separation from the world.

Forfeiting our Influence
This approach—whether it takes the form of total separation from the world or the creation of a parallel Christianized version of culture—forfeits the very influence Christ calls us to have on our students and their world. This danger was addressed at the 1966 World Congress on Evangelism held in Berlin. In "Maintaining A Delicate Balance," a paper to the assembly, Everett L. Cattell correctly affirmed "the desire to be pure, the desire to be holy, the desire to keep ourselves unspotted from the world" as "completely Christian" and something anyone who lives by the Scriptures cannot emphasize "too strongly" (One Race, One Gospel, One Task, Carl F. H. Henry and W. Stanley Mooneyham, editors, World Wide Publications). Then Cattell went on to warn of the dangers of losing our balance: "Sometimes we pride ourselves in thinking that we have kept ourselves unspotted from the world and have kept the faith. But actually we have kept the faith imprisoned behind a wall of separation and fear…"

In "The Greatest Enemy Is Within," another paper presented at the same event (and reported in the same book), Samuel H. Moffett warned against the sin of self-containment: "The church that is turned in upon itself has turned its back on the world to which it was sent by Jesus Christ….There may be worse sins than self-containment, but few can more quickly blunt the growing edge of the Church of Jesus Christ." When we retreat to the bunker, what we've really done is disobey God's missionary mandate.

Phariseeism
Adopting a posture of alienation leads to the erroneous ways of the Pharisees. These contemporaries of Jesus were preoccupied with maintaining outward appearances and keeping themselves separate from people, traditions, and activities they believed would compromise their cleanliness and purity. Their very name translates into "separated ones." They focused their lives on strict outward adherence to the law's commandments and prohibitions, but Jesus said that it's the things that come from the heart that make a person unclean (Matthew 15:1-20).

While I've never met a Christian with separatist tendencies—including myself—who didn't stand with Jesus in condemnation of the Pharisees and their ways, I have met many— including myself—who become Pharisees by assuming Jesus must be talking about everyone but us. When we honestly look at the rites, rules, and assumptions that are part of the separatist way of life, we can't help noticing an uncomfortable similarity with Christ's condemnation of the Pharisees and other religious leaders of his day.

Motivated by Fear
A separatist approach is often motivated by a strain of fear that's rooted in a small view of God—an underlying fear that doubts Jesus' words that he, the Good Shepherd, gives life and protection to his sheep (John 10:1-21) and that "the gates of Hades will not prevail against [the church]" (Matthew 16:18). Granted, Christ's followers must not adopt values, attitudes, and behaviors that are contrary to the will of God. But swinging the pendulum of faith and culture to the extreme of separatism is rooted in a fear that the will of God for which Jesus prayed on the night before his death will never be realized, and God won't protect us unless we build and settle in bunkers (John 17:15).

Hypocrisy
Separatism is usually selectively inconsistent. The worldly matters and things from which we are to separate ourselves typically include outward and visible vices like gambling, drinking, and smoking. In addition, separatists sometimes avoid involvement in secular entertainment and public schools. But many separatists in the United States accept anything associated with The American Waywithout submitting those ways to examination under the way of God as described in Scripture. For example, materialism—the great unaddressed sin of the church—is rarely if ever seriously addressed or challenged; might that present a challenge to the rugged individualism of the American way? Rarely do separatists question matters of political, economic, racial, or social injustice. Jesus indicted that practice of the Pharisees then, and he does so now: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. It is these you ought to have practiced without neglecting the others. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel!" (Matthew 23:23-24).

'Great Opportunity'
Every year I have the opportunity to visit and speak at dozens of churches around the United States. Upon my arrival, I try to learn as much as I can about the culture of the church in two ways: I ask lots of questions of my host, and I snoop around the church. I usually arrive onsite early enough to set up and have some free moments scanning the bulletin boards, countertops, and racks in the hallways and foyer. I make it a point to learn as much as I can about the missions commitment of the church. Over the years, I've discovered an interesting yet confusing phenomenon. Some of the churches that are most aggressive in terms of world missions are also most timid and fearful about interaction and contact with their local communities. Even though they send missionaries across the globe, they've chosen to separate themselves from the culture in which they live. As a result, my challenges to them to know the culture of their children and teens are often met with great objections. They believe staying put ensures their obedience, purity, and safety. I just don't get it. Why would they be so concerned about sending out missionaries to reach the world, while at the same time cloistering themselves from the world at home, all the while assuming that this separation is a sign of spiritual maturity?

Youth workers find themselves in an age of great opportunity. Interest in spirituality is growing, and the church has the answer to that need. The only way we can communicate that message to the world is if we live and speak the Gospel in the culture of our students. Separation is not an option. It's disobedient to the command of Christ, and it forfeits our presence and our influence. So I'll continue to work to convince youth workers to obediently serve Christ by living the way of Christ in, but not of, the world.

A few years ago, I excitedly mentioned to a fellow youth culture analyst that I'd just seen a powerful film that God used to melt my heart and open my eyes to the reality of abuse and its horrid lifelong effects on kids. "What film was that?" asked my friend. "Good Will Hunting," I replied. He looked at me in stunned disbelief, then proceeded to question my wisdom and spiritual maturity. "You mean to tell me that you actually watched and enjoyed Good Will Hunting—a movie with 273 uses of the 'f' word?" "Yes," I replied. "God really used the film in powerful ways. And by the way, when I came out of the theater and looked at my wife, the first thing I said wasn't, 'Hey honey, that was a f***ing good movie, don't you think?'" Sadly, you and your students will miss it—and a whole lot more— if you live in the bunker.

*This article originally appeared in the May/June 2005 issue of Youthworker Journal.

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"Amanda" - you couldn't be more wrong regarding your comment to scripture being errant. This is a great example of why Christians need to know apologetics (including our youth). The translation argument is perhaps the weakest argument that folks like the Jesus Seminar and others like them can make. Your statement is based on the argument that today's bible started say from Greek to Latin to Sans....etc. That is not the case. When we get a translation, we go back to the original Greek texts so that we have a 1st generation translation. Furthermore, the idea that texts were altered by conspiritorious monks doesn't hold up either. For this theory to hold up, our monks would have to have stolen all the original texts in the 3 original languages (Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic), tell the same lie on all texts, in all 3 languages and ge all the texts back without getting caught or showing thier ink work. Now they have to live 100 years. Then, they would have to get the 2nd-3rd century texts in other languages that the bible was translated in (Syriac, Coptic, Latin) and tell the same lie they told in all the texts in Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic and not get caught or show their ink work, now they have to live 200 years. And before our conspiratorious monks were done, they would have to get all the writings from the early church fathers (which is estimated that we could have 95-98% of the NT just from thier writings) and tell the same lies they told in Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, Syrica, Coptic, Latin in all those texts then, get those documents back where they came from and don't get caught or show thier ink work. Now they have to live 300-400 years. The argument that there's a translation problem with the bible does not hold up. Scripture is inerrant. You need to read no further than 2 Peter 1:16-21 "For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, such an utterance as this was made to Him by the Majestic Glory, "This is My beloved Son with whom I am well-pleased"-- and we ourselves heard this utterance made from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain. So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morrning star arises in your hearts. But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." 2 Peter 1:16-21 (NASB)

Jaycen 12:09:37pm on 9/23/2008

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I just want to remind everyone that even scripture is errant. Everytime the scripture is translated and passed down, it was changed just ever so slightly. And the nuances and meanings of words have changed as well. This is one of the biggest reasons not to live in the bunker. The holy spirit works "when two or more are gathered." Discernment helps you avoid the pitfalls of being human. We need to be in coversation with each other (congregations),with other faiths,with God, and with culture. When we are in full community, we can then see the fullness of God's vision.

Amanda 12:03:26pm on 3/12/2008

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well..i agreed on what the writer says. I'm 18 years old and I am from Malaysia.In my country, alot of churches, mostly traditional ones or churches that have older elders usually have bunker mentality. I am experiencing those things that had mentioned above fisrt handedly as I am studying in a university but I have always remembered my youth pastor always used this 'wise words' from the bible to keep us in-check with ourselves all the time. I would like to share it with all of u here. "everything is pemissible, but not everything is beneficial" from which verse..i can't seem to remember..i'm sorry.

mabel 11:12:53am on 12/26/2007

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I used to think like Walt thinks. Not anymore. Please read this whole entry with a smile and soft overtones in the inflection--that's how I am writing it. I won't argue with some of the points made. It probably wouldn't be fruitful. I'll simply say this: one can be "in the world" without checking out movies with objectional content, watching MTV and reading "Rolling Stone" (etc.). I hope that it's not considered "Pharisseeism" to take serioiusly the personal conviction that David modeled when he said that he would not purposefully or voluntarily ever again view content that is "wicked" (Psalm 101:1-4). He was as engaged in the culture as one can get--he was the king! I think being "in the culture" has to do with being aware of trends, relationally accessible and biblically wise. So, of course, I want to be like Jesus, too. He befriended the broken without ever participating in brokenness--and He's the ultimate "in but not of" model. He shows us that we don't have to visit a brothel to love and help the harlot. Jesus spent a lot of time in the bunkers of prayer, deepening relationships with other believers and hard-core teaching ministry. He certainly ventured out "to seek and to save that which was lost." He was aware of their culture and very relevant. I'm so broken! May God give us His wisdom. May we balance Christ's call to "be holy" with His passion to "seek and to save."

Jon 11:12:46am on 12/07/2007

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Excellent article, my friend. The MATRIX film helped me climb out of the bunker. It showed me how to make the connection with culture's longing for the metaphysical. Your perspective is right on. (GCTS, DMIN, 2003) Roger.

Roger 3:11:49pm on 11/27/2007

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My cousin some times visited church with us as kids. Even as a child I understood that there was a seed of Gods word being planted in his heart. Obviously I was glad, and had a sence of satisfaction. That is until I met with him recently after not seeing him for many years.We are both grown men with families now. We were reminising on the past,when he told me about what he remembered most about my child hood church and their teachings .I was infuriated.The word of God should not be mixed with our personal preferences. We must inshure that every student we teach,leaves with Gods word in their heart. Thats what should be in their memories decades after the teachings. That is the seed that can grow if planted on fertile soil. Our own judgements in time may be proven wrong.

micky 5:11:43am on 11/21/2007

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I definitely agree with this article, because culture is like a bridge that we as youth leaders can use to get to the youth we are trying to minister too. If we can identify with bands they are listening to and movies they are seeing, it's an amazing way to start conversations with them. Thankfully, bands like Underoath, As I Lay Dying and more are both popular with teens as well as sporting amazing Christian values in their music, culture is somewhat more "christian-friendly" than it used to be. At the same time, as another comment said, using discernment is a good thing. If people stray to far from the bunker, we can get lost and step on a land mine. To stay grounded in the Bible, and not stray from the true gospel is key. The way we teach the gospel MUST change with each generation, but the actual gospel MUST stay the same as it was two thousand years ago. Culture has a great way of being popular, but also a great pull to water down the things we teach our youth. Peace be upon you.

Brad 2:11:14pm on 11/19/2007

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I am taking a Contemporary Culture class for my Masters of Christian Ministry degree. I was actually resenting being forced to watch "certain R-rated movies." My eyes were opened when I went to NetFlix to order them and realized all 8 of them were in the top 25! They were movies I had never even heard of! I need to dig my head out of the sand and be in the world but not of the world. How can I shine the light of Christ into dark places if I don't know where to point the light? Thanks for a great article! It helped put all my concerns into perspective.

Karen 7:11:12am on 11/15/2007

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For some people living OUTSIDE of the Bunker CAN be dangerous. (i.e. what may be spiritually harmful for them) I think individual discernment is KEY.

Jamie 5:11:25pm on 11/14/2007

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On rereading my last comment I feel I came across harshly to the author. I do want to commend him on this article as it does expose the problem of not being in the culture at all. This absence of knowledge can limit our ability as youth leaders to minister to our students. However, I really wanted to bring up the other side of the issue. There is definitely a middle ground that must be achieved. I do lean toward Tony in trying to create a church culture that is focused on the spiritual disciplines. Though we cannot neglect the culture as it is having an influence on our students and we must be aware of it. Thank you Walt for a very thought procoking and well written article :)

Travis 4:11:57pm on 11/14/2007

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I am just starting out in ministry and am at a church to work with families who have children in elem - h.s. The church does not have many families w/ children or teens. In getting started do I want to foster a youth culture that will draw them in because in many ways it mirrors what they like or instead do I expect that our church is daily concerned with creating a "Christian culture". By that I mean a way of life that is directly addressed and influence by practices that come to us from Christ and those faithful followers down through the centuries. Practices such as eating together at the Lord's supper, forgiveness, fasting, prayer (private, and corporate), reading/studying scripture (private and corporate), living simply, visiting the sick, feeding the hungry, etc. Practices such as these really help to give us the ability to discern our place in the dominate culture. With out developing these particular skills and practices it is difficult to have any particular rational for who we are as people who are sent as missionaries into the world.

tony 3:11:57pm on 11/14/2007

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Thanks for that! Well put!

Wim 1:11:53pm on 11/14/2007

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This is without a doubt a very tough issue as Jill said. One of the primary problems with this issue is learning how to engage in culture without necessarily endorsing culture. If you have a student that is listening to the Red Hot Chili Peppers and you start listening to them as well as many other secular bands that are promoting horrible values your listening and being aware of the music can be viewed as making it ok. If you then go and condemn the artists who are clearly leading people into sin that may seperate you and isolate you further from the students. A second problem with this is where do you draw the line. If a group of people in the church go to a strip club regularly to you go and check it out, see what it is all about. How about watching a movie with alot of nudity? How about watching a movie with a little nudity? Do you do it? Where exactly is the line for studying youth culture. Under the motivated by fear section it also talks about the shepherd protecting the sheep. That may be true, but clearly God does not desire us to throw ourselves into temptation. Satan will surely seize every opportunity to lead people astray. Youth workers must be cautious when participating in secular activities. Someone who has a problem with swearing should probably not watch Good Will Hunting regardless of how many of their students learn from it. In short this is far from a clean topic. There are so many aspects of this discussion that were not touched on in this article. We must remember that when Jesus was engaged in the culture he very often condemned the behavior openly. At times he did it in love and at other times he did it in anger. Though it is important to understand and learn about youth culture it is something that must be done with great prayer, thought, and discernment.

Travis 1:11:02pm on 11/14/2007

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This is a tough issue to grapple with. I'm grateful to people like Walt Mueller for their insights.

Jill 1:11:07pm on 11/14/2007

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This really gave me a lot to think about. Growing up in the church I have always struggled with "bunker" mentality.

Susan 10:11:30am on 11/14/2007

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