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By Walt Mueller
6/16/2008
Katy Perry is one to watch. I think she offers us an interesting and sad case study in youth ministry, faith development, and contemporary adolescent values, attitudes, and behaviors.Two weeks ago I wrapped up my evaluation of “I Kissed a Girl” and sent it off to the editor for inclusion in the Summer 2008 edition of ENGAGE (which will be out next week by the way). During the research process, I learned that Perry – real name Katy Hudson and the daughter of two conservative church pastors – is really not a newcomer to the music scene. In fact, she released a self-titled debut album, Katy Hudson, in 2001. At that time, she was pursuing a career in contemporary Christian music (you can read Christianity Today magazine’s review of that album here).
I noticed that all of the posts are earlier in the year, but I had to comment after reading the article and many of the comments. First I want to say thank you Walt. Thank you for caring enough to write this article and thank you for believing in us youth pastors and our ability to minister the importance of staying away from such "entertainment." I have heard the song in the past, but had not watched the video until just now, after reading the article. Having served in youth ministry for three years now, I know that I am still getting my feet wet, but I have had numerous encounters with teens who have had issues with their sexuality. I am currently trying to minister to two rape victims, one who has decided she is bisexual and that guys don't want anything but her body, a gay boy who wants nothing more than to be accepted, and other students who simply need love. They don't understand that there are dangers out there in the form of entertainment and are being drawn to the material I just witnessed for myself. I am disturbed at the thought that many of the responders are angered over this article. If you are ministering to teenagers, you must know what you're up against. Satan is going to put everything in your teens' minds to draw them to him and if your ignorant to his tactics, your not doing your teens any good. The Bible says to be prepared in season and out of season. What happens when you see your teens at the movies? Do you know what they're going to watch? Perfect example - I know many of my students went to see the movie Twilight - had I not studied up on it, I wouldn't have had a clue how to respond, answer questions, etc. You can't babysit your teens and tell them to change the channel when this video comes on MTV, so know what it is that's being fed into their minds and minister in that area. Most important of all, let the Holy Spirit do His job. If you feel led to speak specifically on this song, do so. If you feel that the video should be placed, do so. God will lead you in the direction needed specifically by your teens. God bless!!!
Melissa 12:12:09pm on 12/28/2008
FlaggedThe majority of our kids are off the street. They have brought this song up multiple times. The biggest issue we've been dealing with is with two girls finding that acting like lesbians openly in events gets attention. These kids are learning a few things from culture today. 1-Girls: that if you want guys to think you're hot, kiss girls and act like a lesbian or at least bi. 2-Both: if you have a strong friendship where you are emotionally attached to your best friend of the same sex, then you must be homosexual. 3-Guys: if you have a naturally flamboyant personality than you must be gay. The problem with this is that you can't get them away from media or from experimentation. I dealt with bisexuality in college...not experimentaiton but the feelings of attraction. I chose to follow God's will as to what was right. That is what made me make my decision. I direct these kids to the Word to make their decisions both on sex and other aspects of life. If we don't talk to them about sex openly then they will listen to everyone else because it is no longer a taboo topic. We can't act shocked or they will feel dirty or like they can't talk to us because we're too far behind the loop. As for showing the video, I would separate the boys and girls and discuss it with the girls but not the boys. If they (boys) hadn't seen such images yet, it would detrimental to them. But the girls would be fine. Good article.. :) Thanks.
sweet 10:08:09am on 8/27/2008
OffensivePaul addressed many of the problems with culture in his letters to different churches. However, he assumed the people knew about it. He didn't take people to the temples of the Roman gods to show the churches what was going on there or encourage believers to go see it for themselves. It would seem he was communicating a "be aware but stay away" mentality. I don't think it's necessary to show the video. If teens are going to know about this like most here say, we shouldn't need to show the video. We can talk about the lyrics or listen to the song, but I don't think we need to visually stimulate teens with the video. I totally respect Walt and his work of dissecting culture, but I don't totally agree with showing the video, even with parental permission. I'd encourage parents to watch it (together as spouses, of course), maybe even facilitate some discussion groups in that way. The thought of showing students this video makes me shudder.
Thomas 10:08:17am on 8/27/2008
OffensiveDont foget people, that we were given free will to decide for ourselves. So you can try to hide, mask or reinterpret what some of you saw in the video to keep learning, growing children from there curiosities but it wont work. If they dont here or see it soon enough in real life then yes it may be from radio or tv. At least someone is trying to put the message out there to youth and adults that what katy talks about IS an underlying curiosty. Most churches and youthgroups are afraid to talk about the birds and the bees therefor the kids will find out on there own anyways. Stop waisting your time tyring to blind kids from reality, they need to know whats really going on in the world or they will be shocked and devoured once they're out there on there own. Katy grew up in a strict, religous houshold, and she grew up to let everyone know how she feels. So...?
Thorough 3:08:57am on 8/01/2008
OffensiveJason That was me, not Amanda who posted the bit about african-american girls and experimental homosexuallity. Anyway, while I am not black, I work with black girls and boys (teens, children and their parents) everyday (have been doing so for 6 years now.) I understand that the "crop" of good, upstanding black males is limited, but we are "raising" the boys who participate in our ministry programs to be different. There are quality black males out there, they are just a little harder to find. That is, however, not an excuse for girls to turn to girls. The trend we have seen is not straight up lesbianism. It has a more bisexual trend. The girls turn to girls for the emotional side of the relationship (the emotional side of sex as well) and they have a guy who they are still getting sex from as well. It is mentally and emotionally unhealthy for our girls to be engaging in this type of relationship. It sets them up for a destructive lifestyle, which is what our organization battles everyday. (Let alone that scripture says it is wrong.) They have to know that there is better out there for them in Jesus. They have to know that they do not have to have sex life of any kind to validate themselves. Songs like this and the numerous others out there in the hip-hop world do not help us in that battle... that was my point and it is a very valid point. And no, if I was a black girl and the pick of quality black men was small... I would not turn to girls and nor should the girls that I work with.
Sara 1:07:37pm on 7/23/2008
FlaggedI can't believe that a youth leader would flat out refuse to discuss this with their students because it's wrong to watch. News flash: kids are going to watch this whether you think its right or not. Kids in our culture struggle with identity and katy perry's puts these feelings into words- and that is why kids are interested in it. How are we going to help our students if we do not try and make an effort to understand things from their perspective? This song embodies the perception and attitude of most teens in our culture today. If we want to have any kind of impact on them, we MUST meet them where they are. That means: listening to their music, watching the movies they are watching, watching the shows they are watching, etc. That way we can know how to guide a student through the process of evaluating these ideas that culture presents for them with a Christian perspective.
Kris 2:07:22pm on 7/18/2008
FlaggedI agree with the article on the following points: 1) it does objectify women and 2) it may very well pressure some teens with no interest in lesbianism or bisexuality to partake in such acts. My biggest problem is not the song existing and not even the content of the song which I find to be a perfectly acceptable expression of one's personal feelings. The issue is the vast numbers of people buying into it. The song itself is a poor excuse for creativity; rather it is merely about raw sexual desire: a basic human instict all human's can relate to. That's why it can go mainstream, and that's why it's nothing more than a profit seeking venture. It's not a message, anymore than a TV commercial is a "message." It's just another way to draw people into buying a product. The singer and the musicians may have talent, but they're not using it creatively but instead for profit. And the people buy into it. The feel-good, sex-loving, consumerist culture is all over it. That's the real issue. The people. Not the market that caters to the people. The people are the problem. The people who waste so much time on such worthless pursuits and become mindless blobs that feed the machine that's killing them as they spend, spend, spend giving into every last raw desire without considering the consequences. That's the problem. Homosexuality is not. Girls kissing girls is not. That's as fine as boys kissing boys and heterosexualty. The issue with today's youth is the lack of a care for creativity, truth, knowledge, and finding something worth living for that doesn't burn out until you find the next hit of whatever basic human instict they've turned into an addiction. Something big, something real. I can't say that something is the Bible or God or Christianity or religion, being that I'm a secular Humanist. At the end of the day, I say live and let live, but it's all worked into a cultural system that works for those at the top and merely satisfies those at the bottom who could have much more if they opened their mind. That's something that is wrong and needs fixing.
Brandon 1:07:03am on 7/16/2008
OffensiveI appreciate Mr. Mueller's expose' on the above artist and her most recent release. I guess my only question, while the information is good and necessary, is... "how do you share this kind of information with your youth group/teenagers or even young adults without peeking their curriosity and perhaps pushing them to engage in homosexuality or promiscuous activity"?
Courtney 8:07:55am on 7/15/2008
OffensiveAmanda: If you were a black woman and you saw the current crop of black males you would chose a female too.
Jason Eldridge 8:07:45pm on 7/11/2008
OffensiveI appreciate Walt's response along with everyone else's. My nagging question though is the tension between knowing and understanding a culture and for a lack of better words, encouraging sinfulness? As a very young youth pastor I struggle with telling my youth not to listen or watch but rather to sow seeds of Godliness and then myself observing the same stuff in the attempt to "understand their culture". I just want to clarify our discussion between understanding culture and participating with sin, at least inviting sin into our lives if that is a better way of saying it. Thanks to all. Stephen
Stephen 10:07:04am on 7/08/2008
OffensiveWe tend to try to be passive, unoffensive Christians in this country today. Because of that, Satan has not attacked us like He attacks church is persecuted countries. Our churches are also not growing like those persecuted churches either. Jesus ministry was not passive or unoffensive. He spoke truth in love, but that does not mean that He didn't tick people off. He angered a lot of people (ummm that's why they crucified Him!) The trick is to take a stand for what we know to be right in Jesus' eyes and remain with in Christ's righteous anger. It's okay to make people mad if you are standing up for what is right and Christ's love for His Kingdom is your ultimate goal.
Sara 9:07:09am on 7/08/2008
FlaggedWhen I was a kids "the church" refused to teach or talk about or listen to teens questions about sex. No one took a stand that the Bible says sex outside of marriage is wrong. No one wanted to talk about that in church... look where that has lead us. We have a country full of young adults who are promiscuous. I'm not saying that everyone from my generation went that way, I certainly did not, but a large number did. I went to Bible college and there were many there who decided to go the world's way when it came to sex. I blame this on the fact that is was NOT addressed in church when my generation was young. The same thing is happening with homosexuality. (As to the comment that this is natural and happens in the animal world, it is fact that homosexuality only happens in the animal world when there is overpopulation of one sex or the other, and are we really comparing ourselves to nonemotional, urge and need driven animals? We are a part of the animal kingdom, but God has put in us a desire to be a part of HIS KINGDOM. He has given created us in His image, non of the animals boast that. He breathed life into us with His own breath, non of the animals boast that.) The Bible says homosexuality is wrong. Straight up from the Greek, no other way to translate it. It is about time that we pull together and teach our youth that this is a temptation just like any other temptation. While the urge to experiment with the same sex may be there, we need to teach our youth, just as we teach them not to fall to the temptation of underage drinking or drugs, to stand up and slap Satan in the face and not fall to this temptation.
Sara 9:07:03am on 7/08/2008
FlaggedWe need to pray for this young woman. She is obviously talented and her choice to use her God given talent in this way is truly sad. Unfortunately, this will take off and become popular. We must pray for our kids, for those who influence them and their parents. We should not be too quick to blame Katy's parents - they may have done all they could do and she chose to turn away from their input and influence. She is still loved by God and can turn around. I have seen these things with my own eyes. We must take a firms stand with our young about these issues; we cannot afford to ignore this.
Cris 1:07:36pm on 7/07/2008
FlaggedThis song was on the radio as I was driving to work this morning. Normally I would change the station when a song like this was on. But in light of this article I listened to the song word for word. It scared me. The song is poppy and catchy and will have tons of mass appeal. OUR STUDENTS WILL BE LISTENING TO THIS SONG. I understand the mixed opinions as to what our approach should be as youth workers. Approach it as you would like, but it's my opinion that the majority of my students will know this song word for word and I want to understand what is influencing them.
Andy Brazelton 11:07:59am on 7/03/2008
OffensiveAs one who has worked with youth for many years and lived in a home with youth offenders, I agree that we as ambassabors for Christ need to be educating ourselves with this stuff in order for us to help our youth. They are crying inside for help, but the church is not listening. We as youth leaders need to show tough LOVE, the kind Jesus showed to his disciples and that same LOVE He shows to us today. When I approach a youth no matter what they have done, I tell them that there is no sin that God cannot forgive. Then I offer my hand of friendship and encourage them to be who God created them to be, without condemning them. We might not have all the answers, but I think all they are looking for is a listening ear and one who sincerely cares. Pray this prayer with me daily..."Dear Father, in the name of Jesus Christ, I lift up the youth of our Churches to You. I pray that they would have a deep and intimate knowledge of You and that their experience in You would transcend anything this world has to offer. May all of our young people know their worth in You, and may each one of them find his or her place in the body of Christ. Enable us to challenge our youth to live in holiness and godliness. Help us to captivate their youthful zeal, causing them to become effective soul winners and workers in the ministry of Christ. May they learn of You daily. May Your Word be so alive in them that each one would be able to discern between his or her spirit and his or her soul. Teach them to recognize their emotions and their natural desires and to control them with Your help. Father, lastly I pray that our youth would learn how to stay full of Your Word and Your Spirit. I pray that their example and zeal would provoke the whole church to stay pure and do the works of Jesus, Amen." God has commanded all of us to LOVE as He has LOVED us.
Eduardo 10:07:37pm on 7/02/2008
FlaggedThis is the kind of healhty dialouge I hope that articles like mine are promoting and provoking. Here's a suggestion for those of you who are really struggling with watching a video like Katy Perry's: 1)Never think that the Christian's responsibility to know the world so that we can learn how to best communicate the Word is an invitation to adopt the standards or beliefs promoted in a piece like Katy Perry's. Knowing to be informed is not the same as believing and celebrating. 2) If you take the separatist approach consistently, you have no Scriptural foundation to stand on. . . unless you take passages out of context or engage in faulty exegesis. Much of our separatism is rooted in cultural nuances that have arisen in the last few decades. We however, have had them as part of our lives for so long that we think they are Biblical. 3) That's not to say that we shouldn't be careful. DON'T GO WHERE YOU CAN'T GO. Each of us needs to be tuned in to God's Spirit and our own weaknesses. 4) Based on some of the arguments I'm reading here, many of you would have to condemn Jesus, Paul, a boatload of foreign missionaries, etc. for their desire to know the cultures and worldviews of those they were called to reach. If any of you are struggling with this, here's a couple of suggestions. First, look here on youthministry.com at my article, "Why I Don't Live In The Bunker." Second, if you want to go deeper, pick up a copy of "Engaging The Soul of Youth Culture." Please don't for a minute think that I'm engaging in self-promotion or trying to sell books. The book was written to unpack a Biblical theology of faith and culture. There's an entire chapter devoted to answering many of the objections in this thread of comments, and doing so Biblically. Again, keep the dialouge going. And remember, our goal is not to know the world. Our goal is to be effective, obedient, and faithful amabassadors of Christ to a world that increasingly thinks and lives worldviews that are contrary to what we've been created for. Blessings, Walt Mueller
Walt Mueller 4:07:41pm on 7/02/2008
OffensiveThis is my first time commenting on this site and I want to first state that it is good to see people discussing such topics. Though not all that was said I agreed with at least people feel a security to speak their mind in the attempts to establish truth. Though, one thing did leave an impression the most on me and that was the issue of whether or not to observe videos/music etc, in the attempts to better understand what our youth are involved in. Honestly my stance has gone back and forth and here I currently stand. As any good Christian would do, I am going to bust out with some scripture to make a point. Solomon is very adamant at showing there is nothing new under the sun. Look how long it took for sin to enter the world. Given a six day creation world view, it only took a few days into life for man to assume a role not intended. The sin only continued to get worse, once again within short amounts of time. Though no-one is positive it would seem that Noah's son even sinned "sexually" towards his father. So my point is, do we really need as youth workers to sit here and say, "Hey, I need to observe sin just to keep my thumb on the heart beat of American youth"? Same gender experimentation is not new (called homosexuality). Nations throughout history had practiced it over and over again. We as Christians don't need study to understand sin, its natural. What we need to study is God's truth and grace. Romans 1 is very clear is showing that man kind knows what they do is wrong, in fact it states that they even "exchanged" and "did not think it worth while to retain the knowledge of God" (1:23, 28). let us be like Job and make covenants with our eyes to not sin. Interestingly enough, looking through the Old Testaments there is a number of times that sin is always prefaced with the first seeing. Hebrews is also great in showing that sin does not just simply happen at a single moment. A murderer does not one day wake-up and say "Hey, I am going to kill" but in fact sin is a slow constant drift. Let us wake up, be blessed and encouraged cause Christ is coming soon. Let us be on guard. Avoiding the drift, Stephen
Stephen 3:07:31pm on 7/02/2008
OffensiveI usually do not get involved with discussions, however I could not help but reading what one individual wrote about God's plan being love and not judgment. I believe as revealed in Scripture that God's plan is both. While we are here on this earth we are to love and God loves each and every person but the Bible clearly states that there will come a day when God's judgment will come. We are not to be judgmental and we are to love that is true. But if we really love the people we are called to serve we will not allow them to determine their own worldview especially when it goes agains Scripture. We should not leave out the part about homosexuality because God has not left it out. This is clearly an example of trying to find gray in the Scriptures which are black and white. In both Old and New Testament, homosexuality is declared wrong therefore when addressing this song and the issue it presents may we all have the grace and the boldness to call sin sin and help those who may be struggling with it to experience the love and the forgiveness of Jesus Christ. I hope this made sense but I had to say what was in my heart.
Brad 2:07:54pm on 7/02/2008
FlaggedI hole heartly agree that we as youth workers must be up to date on what teens are listening to. And why not watch the viedo and show it to our parents and to our volunteers. They need to know what teens are doing too. We can't go through life with blinders on and expect that everything will be ok. What better way to show teens that God has a better way. Besides what better way to get parents and teens talking than to have them both see what is out there and on top of that it is in a controlled setting. We don't need to be scared of what culture is throwing at us. We need to step forward boldly as Christians and let teens know that it is not all ok.
Matt Russell 1:07:08pm on 7/02/2008
OffensiveI don't think the point of the article was to endorse the video. I think the point to make us aware as youth workers what are students are being exposed to. The theme of this song is sadly expressed in many places in today's culture and if we choose to ignore it how can we help a student who is struggling with it?
Tim 11:07:04am on 7/02/2008
FlaggedI hope and pray that the opinions expressed here reflect mainstream born again Christianity. The more we(believers in Jesus Christ)become out spoken in preserving the moral fiber of this country the better we can reach those who base their moral choices on feelings than God's Truth.
patrick 10:07:27am on 7/02/2008
OffensiveDo not watch this video for it will put thoughts in your mind if you are weak hearted. If you are already struggling with porn, same sex relationships, if you think it is wrong then do not participate in this. The Bible says to stay away from the very appearance of evil so why would I want to watch something that is so wrong to begin with placing my self at risk of falling. I believe it is in 1john that says don't make sin a practice in your life. God Bless you at youth ministry dot com and America its time to bless God. Stop praying God bless America. Pray for Jesus to come back.
tommy 9:07:53am on 7/02/2008
OffensiveI'm fairly certain that God's main plan is about love, not judgement. Perhaps, we should be talking with our Youth, about what it means to love, and not lust, and leave out the part about homosexuality. It's easy to interpret scriptures to support your own worldview, and odds are that it is not the worldview of our teens. Our job isn't about trying to change youth into what we deem as acceptable, but trying to engage them in a healty relationship with God, the Church, and society. When it starts with love, not judgement, we end up with spiritually and emotionally healthy adults. And as a sidenote for those who did not know, homosexuality is not a choice or a mental illness as we once thought it was; we understand that homosexuality and that it exists throughout the animal kingdom. Lust is absolutely a choice to indulge or not, and it might be worth putting the focus on it, instead of a worthless arguement about human, not Divine, rules about love.
Amanda 9:07:19am on 7/02/2008
OffensiveFor those of you who think it is not important to watch "such trash", I completely disagree. I am not saying that you need to inundate yourself with all that is of the worldly side of pop-culture, but we do need to be specifically aware of the things our youth are putting into their minds. (and no one said show it to your children or youth, but I would bet most of them have already seen it.) I work in the inner city and part of our role is to watch and listen to the things our children and youth watch and listen to. We are doing a discredit to the ministry and to the Kingdom if we don't do this. I am especially concerned about this artist and her new song. "Experimental homosexuality" is on the rise among african-american females and this song will just encourage that even more. Call me narrow-minded if you want, but the Bible is clear about God's stance on homosexuality. It is a never-ending battle within the culture God has called me to minister to. I will watch this video and we will dicuss it at our "Women of God" girl's weekend at the end of the summer. Thank you for this review and for continuing taking a stand against this particular battle that Satan wages in this world.
Sara 9:07:33am on 7/02/2008
Offensive"... but I don't want that in my memory bank or that of my leaders and kids. thanks for the review." Exactly my thoughts.. I don't want to watch it either. The article is helpful insight to what is going on in the entertainment world. And what we need to guard against. We need not compromise and justify wrong actions, flat out sin!
Ang 8:07:20am on 7/02/2008
OffensiveThanks for the work you do! I'm a youth pastor in Lancaster County and do what you're talking about here. I teach my students and parents to evaluate and tear apart this stuff and see where truth is. We (our generation) has to look at this stuff and say it's not of God and teach other to be able to come to that realization for themselves. Thanks for your article. Keep it up!
Jared 5:07:22pm on 7/01/2008
OffensiveI am disgusted with Youth Ministry .com for even suggesting that anyone watch such filth for any purpose.
Jamie 5:07:16pm on 7/01/2008
FlaggedI will tell all my friends and co-workers now to watch this video and to pass along the message. Such stupid judgements made by the people who offend God the most by their judgements. It will be the hateful - the judgemental people who will see the heat from hell's fire. Not some girl who put out a song that so many enjoy. Lose the judgement... Its 2008 and you're the ones who need professional help!
God's little helper 9:06:35pm on 6/26/2008
FlaggedI'm reminded whenever I read articles like this of the types of things that our youth are dealing with, and with the influences that are out there...Just this evening a group of small group leaders met, and one of the topics was the influences that are shaping our youth's expectations. We're doing this in the context of a discussion of Alex and Brett Harris' book, "Do Hard Things"--their message that teens should rebel against low expectations is such a refreshing difference from the other influences that are out there. Thank you for the review, and the positive suggestions for how best to deal with these types of issues.
Karen 11:06:39pm on 6/23/2008
OffensiveThanks for the review. I first heard this song a few days ago on the myspace page of one of the girls in my youth group. It broke my heart. I believe that popular culture both shapes and reflects socieity, and find this song in particular very upsetting. Even more upsetting though is the fact that, try as we might, we (youth pastors/staff) are only a part of the mix that influence kids. We have to contend with friends, family, school, and media, most of which do not share our values. We also struggle with the balance of "love the sinner, hate the sin" I have tried to teach my youth group that sin (be it a lie about your homework or smoking pot and yes even homosexuality) is still sin, and all sin has the same outcome. However, no sin will change how much God (or me for that matter) loves you. In the end, whatever the current "popular" sinmay be, it is still sin, and these kids still just need Jesus.
adam 4:06:04pm on 6/20/2008
Offensive"God’s clear plan for celebrating and experiencing our sexuality in all its glorious fullness invites us into exercising that gift in the context of a committed, life-long, heterosexual marriage. Fornication, adultery, and homosexuality are wrong." This is a great, inclusive message for my youth who have come out to me as gay. Is is possible to use this video as a teaching tool for both straight and LGBT youth about respect and accountability? Women and girls treated exclusivley as means for gratification is wrong whether you are gay or straight. I do not think this video has to be used only to promote an anti-homosexual message.
Kelley 7:06:31pm on 6/19/2008
OffensiveYou are nuts to suggest anyone viewing such trash !
jb 12:06:04pm on 6/18/2008
FlaggedI wouldn't want to watch this video myself, much less encourage others to watch it. I recognize that the goal is to be aware of what's out there, and respond to it with biblical discussion, but I don't want that in my memory bank or that of my leaders and kids. thanks for the review.
jessica 12:06:12pm on 6/18/2008
FlaggedExcellent article. Plan to share it with my youth team. I take exception to one point in article. Article states: "Katy Perry is one to watch. I think she offers us an interesting and sad case study in youth ministry, faith development, and contemporary adolescent values, attitudes, and behaviors." Perhaps it should state "...a sad case study FOR youth ministry. The case study should be in regards to the parenting role of faith development, to include values, attitudes and behaviors and ultimately the study of free will of the individual in regards to obedience. Where were the parents in regards to Katy's decision to record and film and propagate this "cultural value"? Were they disregarded and not allowed any input? How did she "spin" it to her family and accountability partners (if any)?
Arnie 7:06:45pm on 6/17/2008
Flagged
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